Internet Explorer 9

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Internet Explorer 9

Postby kirschy » Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:28 pm

Internet Explorer 9 (IE9) is due out in a week. There are already screencaps, if you want to get a peek what its going to look like. However in order to be able to upgrade to IE9, your computer has to have Vista or Windows 7. Otherwise you're out of luck because Microshaft is giving the shaft to people running XP or other older operating systems.

For those of us still using XP (or an even older OS), hopefully Firefox 4 is better than Firefox 3.6. And hopefully Opera continues to improve and support older platforms.
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Re: Internet Explorer 9

Postby chibianimefan » Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:46 pm

*sigh* guess I'm going to have to upgrade soon... I mean it was bound to happen, but this relic I'm on has served me well.
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Re: Internet Explorer 9

Postby kirschy » Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:12 pm

chibianimefan wrote:*sigh* guess I'm going to have to upgrade soon... I mean it was bound to happen, but this relic I'm on has served me well.

Or you'll just need to switch to a browser other than IE. XP is supposed to have long-term support until April 8, 2014. And if you're using a 4-5 year old computer running XP that meets all your needs , I don't really see a pressing reason to upgrade unless you have a hardware issue (such as the computer dying on you) or there's a program you absolutely have to be able to run that your current PC can't. And even if you are wedded to IE, I don't see a major problem with continuing to use IE 8 for some time to come. It might not completely support HTML 5 and CSS2, but I doubt that will be a major issue for several years to come since HTML 5 isn't in widespread use, and even once it is there will almost certainly be legacy support for older browsers for a while.

For what its worth, I don't necessarily mind Microshaft dropping support for old operating systems eventually. After all I don't think anyone believes M$ should have to still be supporting Windows 95 or 3.11. (Though I am of the opinion that when M$ drops support for an OS/software it should have to open source the OS/software and put it into the public domain.) And I get that M$ sees this as a legitimate cut-off since XP is in long-term support now, but at the same time when they do stuff like this (especially when its stuff that isn't directly tied to the OS the way browsers are supposed to be these days) it comes across as a blatant attempt to pressure folks to upgrade to a newer OS. Especially since XP still constitutes such a big share of the OS market.
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Re: Internet Explorer 9

Postby Ensign Janitor Tzap » Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:14 pm

kirschy wrote:Internet Explorer 9 (IE9) is due out in a week. There are already screencaps, if you want to get a peek what its going to look like. However in order to be able to upgrade to IE9, your computer has to have Vista or Windows 7. Otherwise you're out of luck because Microshaft is giving the shaft to people running XP or other older operating systems.

For those of us still using XP (or an even older OS), hopefully Firefox 4 is better than Firefox 3.6. And hopefully Opera continues to improve and support older platforms.
BASTERS!!!!!! :smt076
Well, I'm still on FireFox Version 3.6.8.
It has been pretty much trouble free.
{I was dragged kicking, and screaming to XP when Win98 support was dropped.} :smt011
chibianimefan wrote:*sigh* guess I'm going to have to upgrade soon... I mean it was bound to happen, but this relic I'm on has served me well.
Don't just assume that getting the latest and greatest will make an improvement.

Have you tried using FireFox?
I only keep an old copy of IE 6, because of Microshaft's update center doesn't play nice with other browsers.


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Re: Internet Explorer 9

Postby kirschy » Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:26 pm

Ensign Janitor Tzap wrote:Well, I'm still on FireFox Version 3.6.8. It has been pretty much trouble free.

Then you're luckier than I was. I dropped Firefart 3.6 when it started automatically re-creating a downloads folder in My Documents no matter how many times I set an alternative download folder, deleted the downloads folder in My Documents, and went into the settings to tell Firefart not to create a downloads folder. It might have been a small thing, but it annoyed me. And since there were other browser options I didn't see the need to put up with the aggravation of a browser doing something like that.

Ensign Janitor Tzap wrote:I was dragged kicking, and screaming to XP when Win98 support was dropped.

I don't think I was dragged kicking and screaming, but I held on to Windows 2k for a long time because I liked th interface, stability, and small hardware profile. Even though I switched to XP somewhere around 2006/2007, I didn't finally retire Windows 2k completely until my P4 recently died.

Ensign Janitor Tzap wrote:Don't just assume that getting the latest and greatest will make an improvement.

There's a lot of truth in that. I'm not sure what service pack Windows 7 is on, but the old rule of thumb is the M$ needs at least 1 service pack to get most of the bugs out of an OS, and get the system stability and hardware support right. Even then there's no guarrantee that you'll like the new interface or feature set.
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Re: Internet Explorer 9

Postby Ensign Janitor Tzap » Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:33 pm

kirschy wrote:
Ensign Janitor Tzap wrote:Well, I'm still on FireFox Version 3.6.8. It has been pretty much trouble free.

Then you're luckier than I was. I dropped Firefart 3.6 when it started automatically re-creating a downloads folder in My Documents no matter how many times I set an alternative download folder, deleted the downloads folder in My Documents, and went into the settings to tell Firefart not to create a downloads folder. It might have been a small thing, but it annoyed me. And since there were other browser options I didn't see the need to put up with the aggravation of a browser doing something like that.
Hmmm......
More than likely some Spyware messed up the Registry settings for it.
That happen to my FireFox, when I would go out too the Funimation site to use their player.
It would mess with the Flash settings so I couldn't get the controls for the player.
Had to do a complete uninstall & reinstall to fix the registry.
I now have Ad Block Plus & NoScript setup on my browser.
Because it was a bad script that let the Spyware in on my machine in the first place.

kirschy wrote:
Ensign Janitor Tzap wrote:Don't just assume that getting the latest and greatest will make an improvement.

There's a lot of truth in that. I'm not sure what service pack Windows 7 is on, but the old rule of thumb is the M$ needs at least 1 service pack to get most of the bugs out of an OS, and get the system stability and hardware support right. Even then there's no guarrantee that you'll like the new interface or feature set.
So very true. :wink:

kirschy wrote:For what its worth, I don't necessarily mind Microshaft dropping support for old operating systems eventually. After all I don't think anyone believes M$ should have to still be supporting Windows 95 or 3.11. (Though I am of the opinion that when M$ drops support for an OS/software it should have to open source the OS/software and put it into the public domain.) And I get that M$ sees this as a legitimate cut-off since XP is in long-term support now, but at the same time when they do stuff like this (especially when its stuff that isn't directly tied to the OS the way browsers are supposed to be these days) it comes across as a blatant attempt to pressure folks to upgrade to a newer OS. Especially since XP still constitutes such a big share of the OS market.
I remember talking too some guy about Windows some time back.
He mentioned that it was really just an application program that was built on top of DOS.
I knew this was true up an till Win98.
But to think XP was also, was a bit of a shock.
I haven't messed with Vista or Windows 7.
But if they are similar, in that DOS is still the base that Vista or Windows 7 sits on top.
Then MicroShaft isn't going to let anyone have access to the coding, even if it is for obsolete software.


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Re: Internet Explorer 9

Postby kirschy » Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:55 pm

More than likely some Spyware messed up the Registry settings for it.

Actually it was doing that with clean installs. I know because I wiped the OS, reinstalled it, and then reinstalled Firefart. And immediately had the same problem. There were also a bunch of other people who had the same issue. Firefart's techno-weenies gave them an about:config fix that was supposed to solve the issue, but it didn't work. So... after that I got P.O.ed and ditched Firefart.

I remember talking too some guy about Windows some time back. He mentioned that it was really just an application program that was built on top of DOS. I knew this was true up an till Win98. But to think XP was also, was a bit of a shock.
I haven't messed with Vista or Windows 7. But if they are similar, in that DOS is still the base that Vista or Windows 7 sits on top. Then MicroShaft isn't going to let anyone have access to the coding, even if it is for obsolete software.

All versions of Windows after Windows ME used the NT core instead of anything DOS related. That's because Windows ME proved that the partially DOS based Windows 9x core wasn't stable enough for the more modern work loads they were getting. So there's actually no reason not to release the source code for the Windows 9x family. And Windows 2k is 10 years old at this point. From a security standpoint its not really going to help hackers if they could see the source code since Vista and Windows 7 made major changes in how the OS handles permissions for programs. (Windows Vista and Windows 7 are more like Unix in that if a program needs additional permissions, the OS asks the user to authorize it. Though even then M$ screwed up how the permissions system works with their own version instead of just copying it entirely since that might result in them getting hammered for patent infringement or having to open stuff up under the GPL.)

And what you're describing about Windows and DOS isn't exactly true... All version of Windows before Windows 95 were really just a grapical environment app running on top of DOS. With Windows 95, M$ actually introduced a true GUI operating system. However all versons of Windows 9x (including Windows ME) shipped with a version of DOS installed so that you could run legacy DOS apps. In effect making them at least partially DOS based. Windows NT never had DOS a part of the OS. So with NT based OSes, like Windows 2k and Windows XP, you had to run a DOS emulator to run legacy aps (which is why a lot of them don't work right on those OSes even in "compatibility mode"). I believe Windows Vista and Windows 7 dropped support for DOS entirely and I'm pretty confident that their compatibility mode won't work for any program designed for Windows 3.11 or earlier.

What I was getting at with that comment had more to do with the fact that for security purposes, today's browsers shouldn't be integrated into the Operating System the way M$ still insists on doing with Internet Exploder. And since that's the case there's really no reason not to make new versions of Internet Exploder available to folks running Windows XP unless you simply want to put more pressure on them to upgrade since you'd think that providing a browser with the latest security standards would be a major security concern.
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Re: Internet Explorer 9

Postby chibianimefan » Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:48 pm

I don't like firefox too much lately, so I use it as a last resort... and this relic of a computer has power issues so I think it would be best if I just upgraded pretty soon. Eh, I dunno... maybe I'm just being a little too critical since my computer has had power failures twice this month
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Re: Internet Explorer 9

Postby Ensign Janitor Tzap » Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:22 pm

kirschy wrote:
More than likely some Spyware messed up the Registry settings for it.

Actually it was doing that with clean installs. I know because I wiped the OS, reinstalled it, and then reinstalled Firefart. And immediately had the same problem. There were also a bunch of other people who had the same issue. Firefart's techno-weenies gave them an about:config fix that was supposed to solve the issue, but it didn't work. So... after that I got P.O.ed and ditched Firefart.
Hmm.....
That's strange.
I wonder if it might of had to do with hidden folders, and files that hold your settings.

I've done re-installs after doing what I had thought was a full disk wipe.
Turned out I didn't erase those hidden files.
So, when XP started back up it used the old corrupted settings.
Only by using FDISK, or some Harddrive utility.
Was I able to completely erase the old hidden files, and then do a fresh install of XP.

DOS under Windows.......
Well, I checked.
The DOS emulator to run legacy applications, and programs is normally setup during the installation process.
For XP, ME, 2000, 98, and 95.
But you can use DOS 7.0 {that comes with these versions of Windows} as a stand alone operating system.
Meaning you can create a partition that is a for DOS programs only.
But this is very limited in what programs will actually run on newer machines.
This is very true with games that rely on the CPU timing, and the older FAT-16 system that was used.
This is why I'm using a DOS Game Environment Emulator {DOSBOX} for running my older DOS based games.

Well,
Each browser has it's own particular problems.
Some are worse than others.
Site compatibility is a big one, and so far Chrome, and Opera aren't compatible with all sites.
But like anything now a days this will change.

I just heard that Apple is going to ease up on not letting Application Developers access to the iPhone & iPad OS,
because of worries about the Google DROID cutting into their market share.


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Re: Internet Explorer 9

Postby kirschy » Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:14 am

I don't like firefox too much lately, so I use it as a last resort...

There's always Opera, Chrome, and Safari.

and this relic of a computer has power issues so I think it would be best if I just upgraded pretty soon. Eh, I dunno... maybe I'm just being a little too critical since my computer has had power failures twice this month

What do you mean power failures/power issues?

That's strange. I wonder if it might of had to do with hidden folders, and files that hold your settings. I've done re-installs after doing what I had thought was a full disk wipe. Turned out I didn't erase those hidden files.

Except when I reinstall the OS I always format the drive. And at least some of the time I also use DBAN's nuke disk to over-write the entire drive before I format it. Which I seem to remember doing at least once when I tried a reinstall to deal with Firefart's problems. Which leads me to believe it wasn't an issue with my computer but an issue with Firefox 3.6. Especially since Firefox 3.5 didn't have this problem...

Site compatibility is a big one, and so far Chrome, and Opera aren't compatible with all sites.

That's actually more of a legacy issue these days than an ongoing problem. Generally speaking modern websites are set-up to be standard's compliant since (a. modern browsers all pretty much toe the line regarding standard's compliance. (b. while IE still has the largest market-share, it doesn't have nearly the percentage it used to have so developers have to build websites that work with multiple browsers. So you're most likely to have compability issues with older sites (say from 2000-2005) which were developed to work with IE5 and IE6 before IE started loosing market share to Firefart, etc...
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Re: Internet Explorer 9

Postby chibianimefan » Sat Sep 11, 2010 3:49 am

I've had this computer die and fail to turn back on a few times... I thought it was the battery at first but I switched it out a couple times with the same result, as for the other browsers it's a site compatibility issue like tzap said.


I know I complain a lot about it, but I know my computer's old and it DID come from Goodwill so it's not in the best shape... so I think the previous owner(s) might have abused the hell out of this machine.
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Re: Internet Explorer 9

Postby kirschy » Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:23 am

chibianimefan wrote:I've had this computer die and fail to turn back on a few times... I thought it was the battery at first but I switched it out a couple times with the same result, as for the other browsers it's a site compatibility issue like tzap said.

I know I complain a lot about it, but I know my computer's old and it DID come from Goodwill so it's not in the best shape... so I think the previous owner(s) might have abused the hell out of this machine.

Its a laptop then? Hmm... If the power supply (which is usually external in the case of a laptop) is failing, then that's definitely a good reason to upgrade. Especially since replacement power-supplies are usually expensive. Are you thinking about getting another laptop of a desktop?

As for the site compatibility issue, that surprises me. While things may not always render exactly the same due to different rendering engines, like I said unless its an older site it should work correctly in pretty much any browser since the bad old days of people having to use funky, M$ proprietary, non-standard HTML to make websites work correctly with IE5-IE6 are pretty much a thing of the past. Last time I checked IE7 and IE8 both are more standard's compliant for HTML 4/XML1 than previous versions of Internet Explorer (though IE8 is a bit more compliant). And most people who have XP should be on IE8... Who knows...
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Re: Internet Explorer 9

Postby chibianimefan » Sat Sep 11, 2010 2:17 pm

Yeah I had plans on getting a new computer, leaning more toward laptop because I have very little space in my room to accomodate a desktop... but after a garage sale I may have enough room to place multiple computers. I think it may be the power supply now that you mention it.
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Re: Internet Explorer 9

Postby Ensign Janitor Tzap » Sat Sep 11, 2010 5:05 pm

Hmm......

kirschy; If you still have and old copy of FireFox 3.5.
Try loading it on too the computer, and setting up the down load files location.
When it is working to your satisfaction.
Then go to Firefox and get the program updates.
Now see if it leaves your settings alone.
Or moves the down load files location, to the programs default location.

chibianimefan; MCM electronics http://www.mcmelectronics.com
Carries Universal Laptop Power Supplies with adapters.
Standard AC/DC model 70watt $29.99 15V - 24VDC Cat# 28-10655.
19VDC AC/DC model 90watt $35.99 Cat# 28-10980.

I would hate for you to spend your hard earned money needlessly.
Thou, how old is this Laptop?
If it is only 2-3 years old, then hanging on to it would make sense.
But older then that, and you might as well just start pricing the newer ones,
and squirreling away your money for the new one.
Just make a list of what all you want this new Laptop to have.
Then compare to whats out there.


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Re: Internet Explorer 9

Postby kirschy » Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:39 pm

kirschy; If you still have and old copy of FireFox 3.5. Try loading it on too the computer, and setting up the down load files location. When it is working to your satisfaction. Then go to Firefox and get the program updates. Now see if it leaves your settings alone. Or moves the down load files location, to the programs default location.

Tzap, that's what I've been trying to tell you is happening. Firefart 3.5.x worked fine. I set the download location and it stayed without creating a downloads folder in my documents. As soon as I upgrade or install Firefart 3.6.x, it changes the download location to my documents/downloads. I change it back to G: and delete the downloads. Firefart may leave the default download location alone after its reset, but it ALWAYS recreates the downloads folder in my documents as soon as you try to download anything. If you want to read the official Firefart support thread for the problem, its here. According to that its also an issue in Firefart 4.
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Re: Internet Explorer 9

Postby Ensign Janitor Tzap » Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:38 pm

Ok,

I was unclear if you had already just tried upgrading version 3.5.
Or had just uninstalled 3.5 and installed 3.6.

Hmmm.......
I wonder if it may have to do with windows in general.
Something under "Administrative Tools" possibly.

Well, if I get some time. I'll dig around, and see what settings are there.


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Re: Internet Explorer 9

Postby kirschy » Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:53 pm

Ensign Janitor Tzap wrote:Ok, I was unclear if you had already just tried upgrading version 3.5.
Or had just uninstalled 3.5 and installed 3.6. Hmmm....... I wonder if it may have to do with windows in general. Something under "Administrative Tools" possibly. Well, if I get some time. I'll dig around, and see what settings are there.

Tzap, its not really that important to me. The only reason I really mentioned it was as a response to your comment about Firefart 3.6.8. And all I was going for there was that you were lucky it works trouble free for you since that unnecessary annoyance was what turned me off from Firefart (which prior to that I really enjoyed using). When M$ switches to IE9, I'll probably just keep using IE8. If M$ also stops security upgrades for IE 8, I'll probably switch to Opera. Or maybe Chrome.

I'm actually more interested in knowing how long M$ plans to continue releasing security patches for IE8 right now...
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Re: Internet Explorer 9

Postby chibianimefan » Sun Sep 12, 2010 9:24 pm

I think my computer might be 4-8 years old, it looks a lot like an old 2002 that my dad sold to a friend of mine... he still has it too.
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Re: Internet Explorer 9

Postby kirschy » Sun Sep 12, 2010 9:50 pm

chibianimefan wrote:I think my computer might be 4-8 years old, it looks a lot like an old 2002 that my dad sold to a friend of mine... he still has it too.

If its that old, the computer has likely exceeded its designed life-span. Most laptops are projected to last 3-4 years before they need to be replaced (either for hardware failures or because of obsolence). Like any computer, they can last a lot longer if there are no major hardware problems, but over time its harder and harder to run modern software... Still if you like it and it does what you need it to do, then it may be worth spending the $30 or $40 for a new charger/power supply at the store Tzap linked to.

As sort of a rule of thumb... Desktops have a projected life-span of 4-5 years, after which they will be considered obsolete due to processor and memory limitations. According to an article I saw years ago on Geek.com, after 4 years about 10% of desktops will have suffered a critical mechanical failure. Laptops on the other hand have a projected life-span of 3-4 years. (After which they will be considered obsolete due to processor and memory limitations. According to the same Geek.com article, 10% of laptops fail in the first year and 25% fail in 4 years. However... If a computer makes it past the first year or so, the odds are good its going to function well past its projected lifespan provided its not abused...
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Re: Internet Explorer 9

Postby chibianimefan » Sun Sep 12, 2010 10:25 pm

I'm upgrading regardless, this computer has served me well and I think it would be best if I let it go to rest already...
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